Please indulge me, I'm a meta fiend...

[inthekeyofd.livejournal.com]

I love meta, so please indulge me.

These may seem like simple questions, but I love a good discussion..





1. Does anyone else think that at least a small part of the attraction between Zach and Shaun, in the very beginning was the fact that Shaun was someone he could TALK to, even just go surfing with, remember how he used to go alone and how he had said when Gabe told him that people didn't see him around (and we all know he was spending time with Shaun) he said because everyone had left, that Shaun was someone he could sit and talk to, he couldn't talk to Tori, certainly not Jeannie and let's face it, Cody is 5..so I think that while yes, he was attracted and Shaun too, a tiny little part was the companionship as well, you could even take that to be on Shaun's part too, he may have wanted to clear his head, but he may have wanted someone to talk to as well..he did just come from a bad break up.

2. Does anyone else think that Tori thought Zach was with Shaun long before he tried to tell her he was gay, I mean, she did tell him she knew for a time that Zach was and she was the one that brought up Shaun, plus, I think her mentioning that Shaun was good with Cody was very telling when they were having their conversation at the life guard tower when Shaun was watching Cody for them while he built the sand castle, and I think it was Tori that told Jeannie he was hanging around with him and that Jeannie was the one that told Tori that Shaun was gay, if she didn't know already--seeing that a lot of people already did.

3. Why didn't Gabe see Zach's car in the driveway when he almost caught them...unless he did see it and just didn't let or..or maybe Shaun picked him up, but then again, how could Zach get back home, that house was pretty far away from where he was living, even if he skateboarded it.



Just a few things I was thinking about, little things that this movie sort of makes you think about, seriously, this movie wasn't just great to watch, but it left you with the possibilities of having great discussions...*sigh* I just LOVE IT.

Comments

[true-enough.livejournal.com]

Mmmm meta ... Thank you!

1. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. To my eye their relationship seems to be rooted soundly in comfort. Someone to talk to, someone to lie in bed with, share a beer with, wrestle with, simply look at without censor. We see firsthand that everything that Zach loves to do from skateboarding to surfing is something that he does alone and from the comment that Shaun made about not being good about being in limbo I get the feeling that he was left there for a good long time before the breakup he's trying to recover from. I get the impression they're loners by necessity and not entirely by nature. I think when they reacquaint as adults the familiarity and the good company are the driving forces to begin with. Of course, the beer and wrestling put a whole new focus on it but it was nice to see in the montage scene that the companionship was still foremost.

2. I think Tori started putting 2 and 2 together as early as the frisbee scene at the beach. Zach is so animated around Shaun and keeps gravitating towards him both with the frisbee and again around the bonfire. I think the bored and distracted kiss she got at Zach's house later on only confirmed her suspicions. After that, she really begins to move towards making their time out something a lot more permanent. And yes, Tori and Jeanne seemed to be exchanging a lot of information that made it possible for them to come to a conclusion about Zach before even he did.

3. Gabe not noticing Zach's big ol' truck in the driveway (where we see him park it twice is just one of those things I told myself I just have to let go. ::grin:: It doesn't make any sense. The only way is if they mentioned that Shaun brought Zach over to the house but then how would Zach get to work? If they had to have a scene with Gabe barging in on them I would have preferred something where they just pretend that Zach was surfing and stayed the night - no big deal. Gabe could have teased them with his wonderfully un-PC humor about hooking up so that they'd squirm. It also would have given Gabe the wee hint that he needed to find them out. That comment at the diner about Zach's/Shaun's t-shirt is very telling. He is so onto them! I love it!

[inthekeyofd.livejournal.com]

Have you read the other replies I made, I swear it's everything I said, YOU META REALLY WELL!!! We so think alike, seriously, you pretty much said everything I would have replied if someone else had posted these.

Yes, YES, YES, I think they both are lonely and sort of isolated, not by choice, even if there weren't sparks there was something there that they saw in each other, someone to talk to, someone that they could spend time with, someone that they could just BE with. I think, like you said, they were loners not by nature but by necessity..and the limbo scene, I thought that was VERY VERY telling, that it's almost all or nothing at all, he doesn't go half way or leave things hanging..and Zach's response was telling as well, that it took practice. I think I wrote it in the comments to the fic I wrote or somewhere else that for me it was sparks and also companionship, you can clearly see that they like spending time with each other and more, that Zach was also excited to have someone just to HANG with, that next day when he goes to ask him to go surfing, yes, there may be an attraction but I think some part of that was also being excited to have someone around, remember he said everyone had left when talking to Gabe. I love that montage, part of it is exactly what you said, that they like just spending time with each other...one part I love, toward the end when they are sitting on the cliff and you can barely see it, but you see Zach put his arm around him and pull him close..I LOVE THAT. And while it's totally established that they both had feelings for each other and that they were happy, do you think, that other than just wanting him to go to Cal Arts, that friendship was also the reason why he wanted him to move in with him so soon?

I was saying the beach/bonfire scene is the one where she sort of realized, look at how much happier he is when he's with him or just talking to him, it's like night and day, and the fact that he'd rather play frisbee with him than spend time with her or even sit near her at the bonfire, and then after, how he was less than interested and the "scary" music playing..now that was a some appropriate background music.

We were talking that maybe either he did see it and didn't say anything or Shaun drove him..but then how would he get home or to the diner? Maybe he was picking him up after too. And that's a great scenerio too, that he did catch him there, but not in bed and was like.."what, you throwing me over for my brother??"

[true-enough.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I just jumped in but now that I've had a chance to read the replies I see that we're all pretty much on the same page. ::grin:: Thank you for the meta compliment! ::beams::

... when they are sitting on the cliff and you can barely see it, but you see Zach put his arm around him and pull him close..I LOVE THAT.

Oh good god almighty. Me, too! I so wish that the camera had stayed on them instead of panning up. I wouldn't have been surprised to see Zach nuzzle, if not kiss, Shaun's temple or fuzzy head. Have you seen this picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/TrueEnough/Shelter/zachleaningonshaun.jpg)? Why is it not in the film??? Please let there be a Directors Cut of the DVD with all the fannish stuff added back in.

... do you think, that other than just wanting him to go to Cal Arts, that friendship was also the reason why he wanted him to move in with him so soon?

Absolutely. I think it was because Shaun cared about him - as a friend, as a lover - that he wanted what was best for Zach and if he could help it along by mailing in his application or offering him a place to stay then that's what he'd do. I think Shaun practices a kind of agape love - wide open and unconditional. And the fact that they've known each other for so long only reinforces it because he knows Zach is a good guy ::mumbles:: despite all the flinching. ::/mumbles:: I also think that both of them are the type of people that once you're in - you're in. Their friendships and love are abiding.

"what, you throwing me over for my brother??"

LOL! If I can't see this on film then I hope to see it in a fic. Perfect.

[inthekeyofd.livejournal.com]

IT'S OFFICIAL, we SHARE A BRAIN. I love that cliff scene and every time I watch it I almost follow the camera and can swear I see a nuzzle at the very least, I hate to say this, but I would have rather have seen that whole scene than the buying Cody the shoes one.

I LOVE THAT PIC, I've seen it and icons made of it and it just gets me right in the heart, and I think that pic is a PERFECT explanation of their relationship, don't you think, it's not only adorable but again it shows that Zach really wants to be with him..even if a few times he shied away from a kiss (oh that kitchen scene, that's why I love the end, before he'd move, BUT then he totally put his arms around him first and kissed him--I commend the director for adding that scene).

And YES YES YES, let me put it this way, my MOTHER watched that movie, of course I ff'd over the lovin' scenes..but she watched the rest and was like during the break up.."That's a shame, he's such a nice guy" and he is, Shaun is a DOLL and he totally loves full on and does it quickly, he reminds me of the type of guy that would do anything for anyone.

seriously, I may have to friend you just so you can read my meta, because I said the same thing, he SUPPORTS Zach, he ENCOURAGES Zach, he BELIEVES in Zach, he wants THE BEST for Zach--so much so he would send in his application because he doesn't want him to waste his talent.

That's more than his family ever did for him, Jeannie is so selfish she only thinks about herself at the sacrifice of her brother's happiness.

I was replying to someone who left a comment on my fic--they were worried if Zach would meet someone at college..my answer, NO, he's happy, he's got the life he's always wanted, for him, for Cody, he's loved, he's supported, and to me, he isn't the type to wander either..he isn't a partier either any more, he reminds me of the type that stays and sticks and wouldn't do something like that, they have a bond and it's not going to be broken.

*sigh*

Thank you for this, seriously, THANK YOU!!!

oh, and I would totally write that for you too...it would be a fun fic with laughs and of course Zach and Shaun love too. *smile*

[true-enough.livejournal.com]

OK. So I jumped the gun and friended you. I really do hope you don't mind. After all, we share a brain. ::throws up hands::

... even if a few times he shied away from a kiss (oh that kitchen scene ...

I think the hug in the backyard really calmed Zach down a lot. For one thing, he desperately needed it and for another I think it let him know that Shaun cares for him beyond what they do in bed. I was really heartened when Shaun gave Zach a goodnight kiss at the door and Zach didn't hesitate to return it. And yes, the canoodling at the beach at the end was so reassuring to see.

I was replying to someone who left a comment on my fic--they were worried if Zach would meet someone at college..my answer, NO ...

I am with you on this 100%! I would have an extremely hard time believing that either one would risk what they have in large part because it is so grounded in friendship and you just don't come across that very often - if at all. They are IT for each other. That is so abundantly clear. ::sigh::

The gratitude is all mine. When I started this I was honestly worried that no one would show up so I am very grateful to come across so many thoughtful and amazing people like yourself. Thank you!

[inthekeyofd.livejournal.com]

Believe me, it was okay!!! I added you right back. *smile*

You know what I love about that scene, other than the fact that it shows again just how wonderful Shaun is and how caring he is and how much I adore him..that even though Zach hesitates a second (and we'll totally give him a free ticket on that one, it is all new to him too..and not just the man love, but the fact that someone is so AFFECTIONATE with him, I'm sure Tori was, but this is different, this is more of a mature affection, if that makes any sense) and then just totally goes for it, another thing I do love about the movie, in a LONG LONG LIST, is that it shows just what you said, it's not all about sex, it's about just being there for someone else and Zach's slowly but surely opening up to him, it was like he was so guarded before but with him he can show his feelings so much easier.

Zach would never jeopardize what he has, and like you said, it's rooted in a friendship, one that has lasted a long time, they almost have a shared history and no one else is worth losing that over, it's one thing to just grow apart and it's another thing to look for someone else and there is no way that Zach or Shaun would do that, to me Zach is too grounded to do that, and also, too mature.

They found each other again at the perfect time, Shaun was hurting too, I think sometimes people forget about that as well, it's like he's got this love to give and finally found someone to give it to..that would appreciate it, their feelings run deep and in a way, they inspire each other to be and do their best. *sigh*

You are too nice!!! I love discussing good movies or shows or books, so this is like a treat for me!